Black Mental Health: Interview with Ms. Jacqui Johnson

Black Mental Health has long been a conversation within the African American community that has been repressed and an issue that has gone undealt with. While the repression of this important and even controversial topic occurred, many African Americans were struggling to deal with this serious issue but unfortunately did not have the support systems and/or safe spaces implemented in their neighborhoods to go to. This deprivation, compiled with the distrust between the African American diaspora and the medical community, only led to a more grave dismissal of mental health and its trauma within the black community. However, there is a distinction that must and will be noted, the mental health issue ravaging the black community does not stem from biological, heredity, or even hormonal components, it stems from internalized racism, racial trauma, and institutionalized oppression that they are facing in this country. Black individuals are living with this trauma rather than dealing with it because they feel as if they have no choice. They are living with it because they cannot open up to a therapist/psychologist who would make them feel comfortable. Those feelings of uncomfortableness do not stem from a predisposition black individuals have towards licensed clinicians but instead, stem from a cultural disconnect. In the United States, 86 percent of those licensed clinicians (i.e psychologists, therapists) are white, whereas only 4 percent are of African American descent. This disparity again leads back to individuals of this community feeling safe and vulnerable enough to express their issues. But how can they when the person they would be confiding in, already in their mind poses a threat to them? How can they when their licensed clinician isn't able to understand their trauma which stems from simply identifying within the marginalized community?

Despite the adversities the black community faces when dealing with the medical system overall, much less mental health, more facilities/organizations with African American licensed clinicians and therapists, primarily service individuals within the marginalized community who once felt they could not voice their worries out loud. These organizations created by their own members of the African American community serve as a safe space for African American people in addition to lending support/outreach to the individuals who need it. In today’s interview, I was fortunate enough to sit down with Ms. Jacqui Johnson to discuss the mental health issue in the African American diaspora and ways that her organization, Sankofa (san-kof-a) Healing Studios are aiding the black community when understanding and dealing with their mental health. For more information about Ms. Johnson’s organization, ways to help their cause, or even if you need a safe space to feel vulnerable in, follow them on Instagram; @sankofahealingstudio.

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ROYANNE: My name is Royanne Lowe; this is my first interview and I will be interviewing Ms. Jacqui Johnson. She is the Founder of a *Non-Profit Organization centered around social justice and the mental well-being of African Americans. First I want to thank you for coming to this interview, especially on such short notice. Can you please state your full name and tell me more about yourself?

JACQUI: My name is Jacqui Johnson, and I am the founder of Sankofa Healing Studio. I am also a licensed professional counselor, a social justice art therapist, play therapist, really centering the play therapy around adults, as well as using a lot of body awareness because trauma lives within our body, so some of the interventions I use as a therapist are very holistic.

ROYANNE: When I reached out to you, I notice that you run a non-profit organization called Sankofa Healing Studio, as previously stated. Only if you feel comfortable answering, can you state the reason or reasons why you decided to become an avid advocate for black mental health?

JACQUI: Yes sure, Sankofa Healing Studio, the name itself is rooted within African principles and history so looking at the word Sankofa, is an Adrinka symbol of me not being afraid to go back and keep growing. The idea is being able to go back, and our motto is about reclaiming our past to protect our future and shift our present condition. Around the idea, when speaking about mental health, the framework of mental health is rooted in a Eurocentric oppressive framework that wasn’t designed for the black community or people from the African diaspora and recognizing that oftentimes people don’t seek services specifically those I work with, within the black community simply because it doesn’t feel safe. The people that they are talking to don’t understand what it is like to be a part of a community that has been impacted by structural racism, even in the mental healthcare system.

ROYANNE: How has becoming a member, creating this organization, and dedicating your time to this cause changed you and your mindset as an individual?

JACQUI: To do what I am doing, I came in with a social justice mindset. I always say that I am an activist first before being a licensed clinician, so that informs all of the work that I do. However, I learn every day from everyone that I interact with, all of the clients that I work with, community events, other community organizations, there are always opportunities to just listen. That’s important, I have conversations, not in anticipation of answering a question, but to be able to learn and to listen. I think that changes me daily because always being open and applying active listening, I’m always learning something new.

ROYANNE: Can you tell me more about why you think the issue of mental health, specifically within the black community, is important?

JACQUI: Super important. Mental health and wellness are important for anyone regardless of background, socio-economic status, it is a part of our natural being. Our mental health and wellness directly impact how we show up in the world. How we show up in the world as a friend, in other relationships, as a student, as a parent, as an employer, as an employee, how we take care of ourselves, all of those things are in existence and are tied to our mental health and wellness. Specifically for the black community, when we are looking at some of our basic needs, our basic need is to feel safe and within our community, there’s a very long history in this country of oppression, murder, disparities whether education, mass incarceration, over-policing, community violence, lack of financial resources, all of these things are realities for the black community and have been for a very long time so understanding that if I don’t have enough food to eat, if I don’t have the resources or the ability to get a job with a good salary or if I can’t get a good job because I didn’t have a good education so I’m not able to compete for that job, that then leaves me vulnerable for some of the other things negatively impacting the black community. Recognizing all of the grievances does go back to that foundational idea of feeling safe. How do I feel safe if I’m constantly in a state of survival? And unfortunately for a very long time, the black community has been forced into a state of survival rather than thriving because in order to thrive we need to have equitable access to resources, and that doesn’t quite exist yet.

ROYANNE: Before we get any further into the interview, most people know about mental illness, they know the stigmas that are attached to it due to societal distorted interpretations, but they don’t fully understand the issue within itself. How would you as an advocate explain mental health to those who aren’t fully aware or informed on the topic?

JACQUI: For one, there are many different aspects when we look at mental health, and this is not necessarily looking at it from an advocate stance but also as a licensed professional, there is a difference between mental illness and mental wellness. So there are some mental illnesses and they could be stemming from biological or hormonal components or things that require extensive care or medication such as bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia, or other illness along those lines. That, however, differs from people who are dealing with racialized trauma and suffering from depression and anxiety that is directly related to societal factors, rather than an internal imbalance or biological factor. In other words, had they not been oppressed in the frameworks and the structures that we live within then they wouldn’t be depressed or stressed, but there are also a lot of other layers within that as well because our mental health directly impacts our physical health. So if I don’t feel safe, if I am depressed and so forth, I have a higher rate of physical illnesses that come out. Our mental health plays a role in things such as heart disease, blood pressure, and diabetes. These things cannot be pulled apart or differentiated from because they all coincide and affect one another. Expanding people’s understanding that our mental health and our physical health are directly connected, us having self-care is equally as important as walking or exercising.

ROYANNE: According to multiple sources, including the National Council for Behavioral Health, Adult African Americans are 20 percent more likely to report serious psychological distress rather than white individuals. Do you see this as a positive and why?

JACQUI: I would need to understand more of when you say do I see it as a positive.

ROYANNE: *Question rephrased: Do you see these reports and African American adults acknowledging the fact that there is something wrong with their mental health and wanting to address the issue, as a positive being that it is the first step in acknowledgment?

JACQUI: The acknowledgment and the first part of the awareness. Awareness is always positive, yes. However, awareness without action is pointless. It is a great thought as a first step. I would also challenge and say that those numbers are highly under-reported because we have to look at who collected the data and since there are already long-standing disparities between the black community and mental health, how many people did they actually get to record this data truthfully. So I would challenge that the rates are even higher than the 20 percent but yes I think it is great and it is a good first step but I say the same about our mission statements as well as talking about alignments and being anti-racist. Those are empty words without actually giving us programs and access to resources for healing.

ROYANNE: You touched a little on this topic in your previous answer but I will still ask the question. I understand that African Americans are more likely to report serious mental illnesses which is a plus but their efforts of reporting their distress get little to nowhere because most don’t take the next step in seeking out help. Why is that and how can we as a united front come together to encourage those who need the help, to go out and get it for the betterment of themselves?

JACQUI: This is more of a layered question to me. The first thing is even with those reports, people are reporting but why aren’t they seeking assistance and I think that again, I think that’s coming from an oppressive model and an oppressive lens because that then blames the black community for not getting the support they need, rather than recognizing that the resources aren’t available. Saying that people have access to a therapist is one thing, but is that therapist culturally competent? Is that therapist someone who is the right person for them? With the history that the black community has had with the medical community of being exploited, of being harmed, I think it’s unfair to look at the black community as not getting the help they need simply because their not doing their job versus really seeing that our systems are not created in such a way that is supportive of the black community. The black community historically has wanted to seek healing, and we seek healing in different ways because the traditional ways, again, were not created by us and oftentimes aren’t safe spaces to go to. It is about shifting the blame from the black community of “why aren’t we taking care of ourselves?” to “what is the community doing to create spaces for us to take of ourselves?”.

ROYANNE: Understandable, especially when socio-economic circumstances make it a lot harder to receive care.

JACQUI: Exactly, when we talk about mental health services, they are not cheap. Oftentimes, good ones aren’t free and if I don't already have financial resources, how am I going to be able to put money in the budget to go to see a professional? To take it a step further, even if I wanted to see a professional, I have children, who is going to watch my children or I have to work, how am I going to get time off of work if I don’t have the kind of job that has benefits? These are all real-world issues that the black community faces and they are very much interconnected with one another.

ROYANNE: It is no secret that there is a large distrust within our community concerning the healthcare system and understandably so. Even today the distrust within our healthcare system has grown larger. How can we as a community seek to address and alleviate these fears?

JACQUI: It’s kind of hard to alleviate fears that are real. I liken it to how do we tell black men that they shouldn’t be nervous when they get pulled over by the cops. Unfortunately, it’s something with a long history behind it but one of the ways that I help is being a black clinician and specifically serving the black community, doing community events, and being involved to be able to do psychoeducation, I create spaces that feel safe to those who are in my community as well as fulfilling other initiatives with the assistance of additional clinicians who are trained outside of the oppressive Eurocentric framework in our schools. That’s another thing; we have to look at education. In ordered to get licensed, you have to get your masters and to do that oftentimes, you have to go into spaces that don’t represent or understand the cultural nuances that you’re coming from. They aren’t teaching you to be anti-racist and they aren’t teaching you to be aligned with the feelings that the black community needs around racial trauma. If we aren’t teaching our clinicians how to hold that space, how do we grow it and I think that’s the big thing. Getting the psychoeducation and also to getting more clinicians in the space to be able to thrive with services.

ROYANNE: African Americans also adopted the mindset that because we have overcome so many adversities within this country, we will be able to overcome our mental illness without help. What is some advice you would give people of color who’ve adopted this attitude of suffering in silence because of the resilient nature of our people?

JACQUI: I think that’s two-pronged. I think that yes, there are people who have taken that attitude but I also strongly believe- and this is based on people that I have spoken to- people don’t want to suffer in silence but instead may not have an actual outlet that feels safe. Some have adopted that attitude because there are no other options, so there’s this mentality that I have to be resilient because there is no other option but to be that way. I think that it’s difficult to push thriving on someone who is surviving without being able to get them access to good resources. That’s not the space that I’m in, so I wouldn’t necessarily have advice for those people other than to seek out a support system that makes them feel comfortable whether that may be another clinician of color, or seeing someone who is black or of any other ethnicity as long as they are comfortable with who they are confiding in. Having enough resources however is the first thing because even if someone wants to seek someone out, if they don’t have the budget, how can they?

ROYANNE: We’ve touched on a multitude of topics like the racial disparities within the healthcare system and the issue with African Americans not seeking out the help they need. Right now I want to take an even more in-depth look at this issue. When speaking on mental health, as you stated, some people don’t have the resources or don’t have access to those who can connect to them. With that being said, in the US only 4 percent of all therapists/ psychologists are of African American descent while 86 percent of all therapists/ psychologists are of European descent or Caucasian. What are some thoughts you have on this study and as someone who is actively trying to help end the stigma attached to mental health, how can we as African Americans help raise the percent of black therapists/psychologists?

JACQUI: I think that’s difficult and that it’s a systemic thing. I don’t think that’s a burden that the black community should have to carry. So again, going back and looking at education, it’s expensive to become a therapist because it’s not only about going to school and the cost of tuition but also about getting a masters’, taking a year-long unpaid internship, and working for another 2 years or more for a low wage at an organization to gain hours for licensure. There are a lot of barriers that are there that most people, even if they wanted to, aren’t able to deal with. I think the way that the systems are, most aren’t even prepared to do higher-level education even if they can attain a bachelor’s degree. I think that there are multiple layers and structural systems that are in place regarding that as well as the schools being unwelcoming. Even with the 4 percent of black therapists, those 4 percent most likely went to primarily white institutions not because they necessarily wanted to but because that was available. This can be discouraging as well because even with trying to become a clinician, it is riddled with racial problems. The macro and microaggressions that clinicians have to endure just to become one. Not to mention, if you are already struggling with your own mental wellness, because you don’t have resources or people in that space, to now take on this master level training, that’s another taxing thing to your emotional wellness.

ROYANNE: Piggybacking off of the last question, most would say that is another reason why African Americans don’t seek out help because they feel the person who they are seeking help from would not be able to relate to them or the issues they face in everyday life because of the fact that most therapist and psychologists are white. Does not being about to connect with your therapist make it harder for African Americans to speak about their issues?

JACQUI: 100 percent. I can’t talk to someone I don’t trust. In order to go to therapy and to be able to receive healing, you have to be a hundred percent vulnerable. How am I going to be vulnerable if I feel I am in a lion’s den? In other words, I’m not going to bare my skin to someone I see as a predator. Unfortunately, that is the history of it. Even looking at youth within the school system, black girls are criminalized. There’s the criminalization of black girls and they are pushed out of school systems and it starts at a very young age. A child may be going through something and according to school policy, the child is acting out. However, if it were a white little girl they may be referred to family counseling or something along those lines but studies have shown that black girls are 7 times more likely to be referred to a penial process whether it be suspension etc. It starts early on when we already formulate the mentality that it’s not a safe space to be in. Not to mention, parent’s who are struggling with something, will be afraid that the system will come to take their kids instead of providing them with the resources needed. If they are honest and say they are struggling, they now have to face the inequitable system and its dealings with the black community that again is another action of penalization. They go for help and then they are penalized by having their children taken from them. There are just so many things that happen maybe not to everyone, but those are real fears and are reasons that the members of the black community would not feel safe speaking to someone who cannot connect to their real-world problems.

ROYANNE: We’ve spoken about ways we as a community can band together and encourage those who need help to seek it, we’ve spoken about the percentages of African American psychologists and how it plays a role in hindering the outreach our people need but let’s reroute this interview back to the racial disparities and the socio-economic circumstances that also are a major factor into the care our people are and aren’t receiving. According to the National Alliance on Mental Health, “In 2018, 11.5% of Black adults in the U.S. had no form of health insurance. The Black community, like other communities of color, are more likely to experience socioeconomic disparities such as exclusion from health, educational, social, and economic resources. These disparities may contribute to worse mental health outcomes.” Is it safe for me to assume that organizations like yours are trying to lessen this disadvantage that our people face?

JACQUI: Absolutely, and that’s what we have been touching on in all of the questions of really shifting the narrative from the black community is not seeking services to these services and resources not being available to the black community, especially those that are culturally in alignment to fit the needs of black individuals.

ROYANNE: What are some ways that your organization; Sankofa Healing Studio, has tried to combat this issue in addition to lending your services?

JACQUI: Many ways. My specialization is in racial trauma and specifically around structural oppression and naming mass incarceration trauma as an extension of the enslavement of the black community. So really understanding all of the harm, all of those disparities, and how that all looks and impacts generational trauma. Being able to have a space that pinpoints the issue and validates the black community experiences, that in itself is huge. We offer pro-bono services to the community to be able to speak about how these different systems impacted us whether as an adult or as a child in addition to a lot of psychoeducation. People do want to know how to take care of themselves but may not know how to due to the capitalistic society we live in. It’s this idea of I don’t have time because I have to work etc, but receiving psychoeducation about ways we can take care of our mental health and wellness. One way would be us not feeling guilty about spending time taking care of ourselves. Historically, looking at the enslavement of African people, human trafficking, and other terrible events, there was this notion in society that people from the African diaspora didn’t qualify to be a person, so they weren’t deserving of rest and self-care. We have to be very cognizant that this hasn’t changed. We talk about disparities even with working, and though you may have a job, that job may require so much of you, but give so little in economic return. So many people within the black community work 2 or 3 jobs and are still struggling. Understanding all of these things and how they impact us is crucial. The topic is very layered.

ROYANNE: For our readers out there who may be interested in lending a helping hand, how can they contribute to the cause or how can they contribute to your organization?

JACQUI: People who are interested in supporting us, doing anti-racist work in this very specific social justice lens around mental health and wellness, we are a non-profit, a **501(c)(3) and donations are more than welcome. Any monetary donations are absolutely helpful. On our ***Instagram, there is also a Linktree located in the bio, and on that Linktree, you can find more links with information concerning the organization’s purpose, events, and more. There is also an Amazon wishlist, as stated previously, I am a social justice art therapist so I provide art materials and art group therapy at a local jail for women prior to the pandemic but I still provide art supplies for our incarcerated women in my town. In addition, there is a myriad of community events to support people about mental wellness. Looking at the psychoeducation and providing spaces/materials for those things by donating or buying supplies off of the Amazon wish list is absolutely helpful. If people have other specific skills they feel could be beneficial, they may and can always reach out. Skills such as website building, marketing, fundraising, or helping spread awareness would be greatly appreciated in the work that we are doing. ROYANNE: As an advocate for black mental health well-being, is it your belief that more candid and open conversations about this topic should happen, and if so why?

JACQUI: Absolutely. I think the conversations need to happen because if they don’t happen, those who are being harmed know they’re being harmed, and those who are harming get a pass because they get the option to say, I didn’t know. So similar to what happened with the murder of George Floyd, so many people were outraged and could not believe that this was possible. They hit the streets in support and to protest. However, the black community was not surprised. This has been happening. This is not a sole instance. It’s captured on video now which made a difference but I think having these conversations and holding people accountable is so crucial because now you can’t say, you didn’t know these things were happening. You can’t say that you didn’t know there were stark disparities when we are having a conversation. Now the Caucasian community has to consciously continue to engage in ways that are harmful such as not being anti-racist because just saying I’m not racist isn’t enough. It’s not enough to say I’m not a racist, you have to be anti-racist, and to be anti-racist you are actively trying to shift the narrative and the system and calling out oppressive behaviors when it happens. That’s what we are going to need to do because, without these conversations, systems go on as they are. There needs to be a conversation that says, no this is not okay. The way that black bodies are over-policed and under-resourced has now become a front topic but we can’t let that topic seize to a stop. We have to continue to keep the pressure on it.

ROYANNE: You have made some excellent points today, you have taught me a lot as well about this topic. For my first interview, I believe this went well and that can be accredited to your vast and in-depth knowledge about the subject. I want to thank you so much not only for allowing me to interview you but also for being open, honest, and knowledgeable.

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*Non-Profit Organization: a legal entity formed and operates with the sole purpose of helping communities they serve. Non-profit organizations receive much of their income through donations.

**501(c)(3) is a portion of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code and a specific tax category for nonprofit organizations like Ms. Johnson’s

***Instagram: You can follow Jacqui’s organization @sankofahealingstudio on Instagram